> "you give me nothing further to argue with. :-)"

It's difficult to argue against good reasoning and solid facts. ;-D

> "Have you read the book Self-Made Man"

Funny you mention that. I know her story. I've been wanting to read it for a while. I think I'll buy it tonight.

> "'I'm not suggesting you actually try it the opposite direction, haha."

LOL! Yeah, I wouldn't be convincing in the least. My height, my build, my voice (I'm a baritone), my energy and my direct ways definitely show my being a male.

At best, I could be a passable drag queen! :-D

> "I think we were somewhat talking apples and oranges"

Of course. It happens, and it's even easier in writing. Really understanding each other is far from a given.

> "As to that whole stability bit...yes we do crave it but when we realize that the current system doesn't guarantee it or even promote it...maybe more people will wake up."

Ha! I'm sorry to be the cynic, but we're far from it.

With 50% of divorces, plenty of cheating and lots of marital unhappiness, it's more than obvious the monogamy system seldom works. But instead of acknowledging the shortcomings of monogamy, each gender blames the other (and feminist have made an art of blaming men for everything).

I've even written (well documented) articles on the "failure" of monogamy, and yet people react defensively and with denial. Humans cling to what makes them feel secure even despite evidence.

Besides, the problem is humans want it all. We want security AND excitement: the romantic myth promises exactly that, an ever-lasting bliss of emotional and sexual fulfillment. And people believe it, and people want it, and when things go tits up they go mad and they blame anybody but themselves (most of the time).

> "I THINK if I were to remarry I would make it open. [...] I would make it clear that while I would be very hurt by his dalliances..."

I don't think this would work. Open relationships flourish in acceptance and letting go (of our ego first). If you felt that much resentment, it would corrode the relationship.

It feels to me you rationally accept open (because your mind knows monogamy doesn't work), but emotionally reject it. Your mind and your gut seem going in opposite ways :-)

Poly people have the concept of "compersion": being happy for the happiness of the partner, EVEN when s/he is with other people. I think it needs a really beautiful and mature soul to be able to feel that way. I experienced that sometimes. It's another level of loving, ego-less.

> "to me, honesty is much more important than physical fidelity"

Well, we found another point we totally agree on. :-D

To me, "cheating" is not about having sex, is about being untrue.

> "if he's allowed this kind of honesty, it's more likely he'd come talk to me about fixing things"

Absolutely.

I always say, "If you want honesty, you simply cannot punish the other for his honesty. Because then he won't be honest anymore". If you want honesty, you have to reward honesty: it's a precious gift, not a given.

Alas, most people don't accept this: they _demand_ honesty, no matter what. Of course it works wonders... ;-P

> "trad marriages don't seem to work so well these days"

I think it depends. They work for some people.

I believe the main issue is expectations: the higher the expectations, the more likely to become disappointed and bitter. Marriages of yore lasted also because people had low expectations. :-)

> "we've got to start somewhere and try different arrangements."

Agreed.

My leading principle is "Be true to yourself, but also accept others will be different and allow them to be true to themselves as well".

In the end, we feel good with people we are compatible with, and feel bad with the ones with low compatibility. So, I look for the former and let go of the latter. ;-)